Civil, revolutionary, or french and indian war?

[swizzle]

I've been MD'ing for going on 3 years now and the whole time have envied your bullets and buttons ect... I've been thinking how much fun it would be to go south and hunt these places with some of these forum posters. Then like a brick to the head the dim light bulb started to flicker and I remember my cousin found an old sword. Just off of an old road. Military road (wow imagine that). I think this whole time I very well may have been sitting on a gold mine of war relics and never knew it. Now my question(s). How can I tell which war this "military road" was used in? I have found records of people in the area in the american civil war and the revolutionary war but see very little about the french and indian war. I see nothing about troop movements in this area. Am I looking at the wrong records? What do I look for. I have heard for years that the military road used to be an old indian trail. Maybe french and indian? I have no clue. My next question is about a trench I found in the same area the sword was found. Its 10 to 15 feet wide and 2 to 3 feet deep and I'm guessing off the top of my head maybe a 100 feet long and slightly curved. There is no history of a battle field here that I know of but I think that it may have been a camp. If indeed this was a camp then what was the purpose of such a trench? Protection in case of an attack? training? Supersized super deluxe privy lol? Its possible that the trench was there before or after the war and served a different purpose. How far would troops generally travel in a day? I know this particular road is prehaps 8 miles before it went back into the woods. Private land owned by a paper company. What other features should I look for? Where would you start hunting first? The stone walls, the trench? I know one spot that is maybe a 500 yards off the road that looks like it would be good for a large camp. Let's hear all the feedback you guys have and any info you can give me. Thanx for reading this lengthy post. Jason

[swizzle]

Wow I was kinda disappointed on this thread. Is there a lack of information on my part, interest or knowledge on this thread? Am I asking the wrong questions? I figured that we had some hardcore war collectors in here that would be interested in a pre-1800's war time camp. I honestly don't know where to start. Do you want me to draw a map of the area? Is there anything else I can tell you that would help you help me? I really need help on this one guys. Jason

[Gregory]

Hey Jason,

I've been studying this post, want to get my facts together before I reply:icon_wink

[swizzle]

ok If you want it might take a few days to get it posted but i should be able to draw out a reasonable map with some acuracy and get it posted. If you think it'll help. Jason

[Gregory]

Yes Thanks.

[morestuff!]

swizzle.. I'm by no means an expert on searching that kind of site. But, if it were me.. I would start at the trench. It sounds like the most striking feature of the area. Methodically work it and keep a notebook on that area. Then, you can draw a map and keep track of where you've been and what you've found in each section of the site.
My opinion on the trench.. Civil War era.
If you are able to take a couple pictures of the place or draw up a map showing the general relation of the features it would probably help.
Does indeed sound like an interesting spot.

[Pat]

Swizzle I am a beginner myself and am in search of a camp myself...all I can suggest is get out there around that trench and start detecting the area and if you find something then maybe you can research any items you find and then this might tell you who was there...

Pat

[Toadie]

Start about 30 yards before the trench. Work up to,in and beyond the trench for about 30 more yards. Description you gave may well be a small breast works for a retreating armies last defense. There are so many possibilities, until you find what era you are looking at it is hard to tell. Reason I suggest before is this, old battle sites, muskets didn't really shoot all that far(if before Civil War era) and since the ditch would have slowed 'em down, then on the sides of the ditch is gonna be your hotspots.. The ditch could be an obsticle to slow down enemy. (Shooting fish in a barrel) Since you have no real way of knowing which way the enemy came from search both sides. If this was a battlesite there will be some form of evidence in the ground. The trench could just be a refuse site for a popular campsite. If it was a refuse site there is bound to be some objects that were strewn from the campsite. I would search on zero discrimination if the area is secluded.

Remember, alot of small skirmishes and firefights were not "documented". Some were just reported to the acting Commander and if he got a wild hair so to speak he would make a notation of it but several early ones were not documented. This was common if they were unfamiliar with their surroundings and the fight was just listed as being in the wilderness. Same way with campsites.

James

[swizzle]

Thank you guy for all the information. I never even thought of the possibilty that it could be a battle site. I will indeed draw a map and since I don't have a scanner I'll put it on a floppy disk at wally world. I'm working this weekend so I'll try to get it done on monday. I can't believe that I left this bit out. I've also heard for a while about cannons on some private property. 2 or 3 of them. About 4 or 5 miles from this site. I should try to get permission to run my detector through there.If this helps any (i'll go into some detail on the map) There is two creeks about 5 miles apart. Next spot for water is a bit further then that. I might possibly have two camps in a small area. I'm not sure but i imagine that the distance an army could move troops in a day would be dictated by the roughness of the terrain and the availbility of natural resources. I also remember a road in the woods I hunted on a few hundred feet from the trench. Nothing but a 15 foot wide grassy path. I hope soon I'll be posting some decent relics to show off. Jason

[Toadie]

I am not a professional myself. I only have the credit of locating three forts thus far. It was just being familiar with the Napoleonic Tactics used in those days until the civil war and the process of elimination. One of the forts wasn't really lost, just sorta misplaced through the years so to say. It was on the old maps but not the newer ones. When I say old I am talking 1850 vintage. Nothing can be found on them after 1875 or so. You may have stumbled into an outpost of early Revolutionary War era or so. Or maybe a training camp of civil war vintage. Good luck and hope to hear of your finds. As for posting a pic of the sword if you can Pappy should be able to identify it, if not one of the others may.


james

[WVaTom]

and detect the whole area. they would have been all over the place. i have found lots of buttons in roads.good luck. check ehistory out and see if it was a civil war camp. if not you just elimanated one era. good luck. try terraserver and print out both kinds of maps. that has been a very big help to me. the terrain makes the differance as in they would not camp in a area that may flood etc. if you can find out what kind of officer was in charge will also help. well trained officer would would build them close to the book and a political appointeewould build it in his own way alot of the time:rocketwho

[swizzle]

Hopefully this works. The "valley area open hardwoods" is where i think the campsite might have been. The curly q's along the side of the roads are stone walls. I haven't stomped through these woods in a while but I know there is more stone walls. I wanted to be as accurate as possible so I left out things I weren't sure about. I'll try to answer any questions you might have. Hope this helps. Oh yeah the grassy path just disappears into the woods but I know of an opening in a stonewall on the other side of the road on the lower left hand side of the picture. Jason

[swizzle]

Do I need to improve on the map or is it understandable? I can blow up any section that you want to see in better detail. Let me know if there's anything I can do. Jason

[swizzle]

I just read a little bit of info on the old military road that leads me to believe that it was the french and indian war. It states that this was a trail that lead from fording area to fording area on its way north to canada or south to the mohawk. It also suggest that there was a good possibility that thousands of troops and indians used this path over the course of the war. The reason there isn't much of a record on it is the fact there wasn't even a settlement here at the time. Just a few hunters and trappers and indian hunting/fishing grounds. Jason

[JimInPhilly]

Hey Swizzle ,, Enjoyed your post.

I agree , a clue to military history of your site will be in the date of the sword.


Sounds like the good finds can be anywhere on your site, landscapes can change drasticly over 200 years.

I wouldn't post the exact location of your site... You may get there and find 15 detectorists that have seen your post and are taking advantage of your research.:mad:


Need permission to hunt?

Two cents worth


JIM

[Gregory]

I guess the best way to find out about the site is to slowly detect it.

Take your time, theres no hurry. You'll probably get many deep signals there.

Good luck,

[swizzle]

Well Now all I gotta do is wait for spring. This waiting game is killin' me. I definately want to wait until spring so I don't ruin any finds chopping through the frost. Jason

[Toadie]

Good luck to ya and hopefully everything will be thawed out soon.

James

[Trajian]

Swizzle,

I have md the area I think you are talking about, also I have info on where the military road ran, also alot of info on the french and indian war in the lake george area. I have done a ton of research and made many trips to verify information and sources. Let me know the area you are talking about and specifics and I will put my two cents in.

Tony

[swizzle]

I did go and detect for a bit and found a small pile of square nails next to a stone wall. A lot of trash signals and newer trash. No real relics to speak of. I really did a half hearted detecting trip because at the time the ground was still frozen. I did find a few interesting stone piles. The biggest one is prehaps 3 feet round and not even a foot high. I did ask for permission to hunt the area as it is town property but was turned down. By the town supervisor and the town attorney. All because I could fall into one of my supersize holes and sue the town or I won't give them the millions in gold that I'm sure to find. I was told it was unsure as to who's property it would be if I did find something. Sounds to me like if I did find something good it would go into someone's personal collection. So I've been sneaking onto public property to do a legal activity?!? I was told if I was caught on town property that the troopers would be called and I'd be asked to leave. So I'm looking at it like a one time get out of jail free card. The trench....I found out later that the trench was put in by the town 40 or 50 years ago to help suck up some extra water from a swampy spot. The only thing I know is the sword is real, but my cousin still has yet to find it. Its about time to bug him about it again. The next time I go up I'm going to pull those stones out and dig down a bit and see if I located a garbage hole or someone's pet cow. I know there has got to be more area's to go other then town property but I will have to ask permission. Jason